Episode 16 - A Male Perspective

podcast Dec 05, 2022
Do Divorce Right
Episode 16 - A Male Perspective
40:45
 

The Do Divorce Right podcast is dedicated to looking at the many different aspects of divorce,  interviews with women who have their own incredible divorce stories or those who can offer some great advice as you go through yours. Hosted by Becca Maxwell, a divorce coach and relational intelligence consultant, the focus here is to help you to find the strength and support to help you heal, feel lighter and in a better frame of mind to face the inevitable challenges of your divorce journey.

In this episode, Becca had the unique pleasure of having her first male guest join her in the podcast. Daniel brought to the table an interesting perspective on what a positive divorce can look like, given his own experience with matrimonial difficulties. He went in depth about his experiences with divorce, shedding light on how to best approach it as well as what worked for him and what did not during this period of transition.

Tune in to Dodivorceright podcast to get inspired by Daniel’s story and gain more insight into making the most out of your divorce regardless of gender.

 

Audio Transcript

 

Becca 

Welcome to the do divorce right podcast. I'm your host, Becca Maxwell. And I'm here to help you transition through your divorce with ease and integrity, to not only survive the challenges of your divorce, but to thrive as you come out the other side of it with a much better life than you ever hoped possible. On this show, we talk about many different aspects of divorce, interview women who have their own incredible divorce stories, or those who can offer some great advice as you go through yours. The focus here is to help you find the strength and support to help you feel lighter, happier, more positive, and then a better frame of mind to face the inevitable challenges of your current journey. So today's episode is a little bit different. We're used to hearing from women who are telling us about their inspiring divorce story or advice on how to survive from experts in the area, we've had family lawyers, we've had conflict resolution experts. So today's something very, very different. We're having our first male guest on the podcast. Now, Daniel, I'm not going to share too much about who you are, we're going to keep that a little bit of a secret. But you were introduced to me by a colleague of mutual friends, sorry, who happens to be a colleague of yours. And she said that you have a really interesting perspective on what a positive divorce can look like. And I'd love to hear a little bit, I'd love for you to share with our listeners, if you're okay with that. Tell us a little bit about your story of marriage and You separation.

 

Daniel 

I think that this episode might not be the divorce, right. But it can be someone trying to be relatable about making most of the common mistakes people make? And, you know, surviving it all at the same time. But I don't know where where do I start? I guess?

 

Becca 

Well, I understand that the end of the marriage was not necessarily your choice. And I think that's quite interesting. So maybe we could start there. Where did you see the marriage unravelling? How did it end? Rather than how did it begin?

 

Daniel 

Um, I kind of just notice my, my partner had checked out emotionally. Right. And I don't know, I guess I could kind of see the writing on the wall. And I was thinking about some of this this morning, and remember that one of my children would tell us off arguing. And, you know, I think one of the themes that I'll come back throughout this conversation is, you know, putting, having having children involved that needing to put their needs and emotional well being first, that, um, you know, it kind of makes a lot of the decisions quite easy, because, you know, you kind of almost remove yourself from it, and you have to take into consideration what's what's going to be the best outcome for the children. And I think that was something my ex and I both focused on. But yeah, I could kind of see it coming to an end. And I think it got to a point where it was so emotionally damaging for me to stay in the relationship. And I knew my ex wanted to get out of it that, that I you know, I kind of agreed to it. You know, I think it wasn't it wasn't a case where, you know, my ex packed up and left, there was no infidelity. No one had a gambling problem, you know, that, like, there wasn't anything particularly dramatic or cataclysmic it was just a relationship that kind of broke down and ended and, you know, my ex was changing careers at the time, and I guess didn't, didn't really have the financial means to move on. And so, you know, I guess, kind of let it reach its own organic conclusion. And so, in many ways, it kind of became mutual, but at the same time, all these preconceived notions about who I was and what what my life was going to be, like, were taken away from me. And I found that really difficult, you know, having you know, kind of feeling like my life was being destroyed in a way that I was gonna have to completely redefine who I was as a person and, you know, feeling like I I'd lost something that I placed a lot of value in, and that that wasn't necessarily my choice. That it was the the the other person in the relationship very clearly wanted to end the relationship had kind of checked out of it. And, and even though I didn't want to end it, I kind of recognized that I had to, because it staying in the relationship was hurting me more than having to get out of it.

 

Becca 

Daniel that's extremely relatable, extremely relatable the idea that somebody else doesn't want to be in this partnership anymore. And therefore you really don't have a choice but to allow the separation to happen. Can I ask how long were you together? How long were you married?

 

Daniel 

I looked well. And to be completely frank, so I'm not disingenuous, I've still got to put through some paperwork to actually finalize the divorce. But we were together all that for about nine years. So I think any beautiful boys, yeah, met, married after about two years, had two children. And then I think it was probably within 12 to 18 months of the birth of the second child, the relationship ended. And it's now it's now been, it's now been four or five years since since that point. And yeah, we're, you know, we have a, you know, a functional collaborative relationship, and, you know, to healthy happy kids. And, you know, I think I'm a bit of a nightmare to deal with emotionally. And there's things I'm

 

Becca 

gonna ask you a bit more about that. There's things I do

 

Daniel 

well, and have done well. And I think, you know, there's things that that my ex partner did well, as well, that have meant that, you know, that we've gotten through this period, still able to support each other and get along and without, at any point, kind of intentionally damaging each other and making it worse or harder, or something that would have really frustrated me expensive. Because, you know, I think I've read somewhere that 85% of couples who divorce face a poor financial future than people who don't divorce. And that that was something I was really mindful of, you know, there's a lot of lawyers in my extended family, and the idea that, that, you know, they'd make a bunch of money out of my misery didn't really appeal to me. So, you know, I didn't we didn't, you know, we, we ultimately haven't needed or involved lawyers, and everything's been mutual and agreeable. And, you know, I think, in terms of, you know, if the theme of the podcast is divorce, right, a big part of that, for me, has been, you know, what, not wanting out of it. Yeah, not wanting to not wanting to divert economic resources, to parties outside my family that they benefit from it rather than my children. You know, I'd rather I'd rather their quality of life be better.

 

Becca 

I had a guest last week, say you have the choice of paying for your own children's private schooling or paying for your lawyers, children's private schooling. extensively, you know, yeah, not not allowing it to go into the pockets of the lawyers makes a lot of sense. And there's, there's so much in what you've just said, here, and so much I want to pick apart let me start with the you mentioned, there were things I've done well, and you said this thing she's done. Well, tell me a bit more about what what have you done? Well,

 

Daniel 

I'll look. So certainly, I think the financial aspect of it, where I've over delivered on what I was what I'm legally obligated to contribute to my partner, and her 50%, of raising our children. She was a student changing her career when the marriage ended, and, you know, didn't didn't have the financial means to maintain, you know, a quality of life that, you know, I wanted my children to have at the time. And so, you know, I've kind of voluntarily paid extra.

 

Becca 

Why did you make that decision? How can women convince their ex husbands to make a similar decision?

 

Daniel 

I guess you've got to try and frame the conversation as about what what's best for their children, that, you know, you have a shared interest in these two little people, and that the breakdown of your relationship isn't their choice. And you know, that they're, you know, kind of innocent bystanders, and you don't want to make them collateral damage. So I guess, kind of framing the conversation around, it's not you versus me, it's what are we going to do? You know, to work through this this situation? I don't I don't, I don't know that it was particularly anything that my ex asked of me, I think, you know, her expectation was probably more around the idea of what she was legally obligated to receive. And that, you know, it's something I voluntarily did. And so, you know, maybe it's not, it's not necessarily the role of the female to be convincing the man to do the right thing. It's, you know, it's kind of, you know, people taking responsibility for their, for their responsibilities, and, you know, kind of doing the right thing and making sure that their children aren't disadvantaged by by that situation. You know, we do have an economic system that skewed towards higher male income still. And, you know, I think while that's still the situation, you know, it almost creates an obligation to, you know, make sure that, that, you know, you, you support your children as much as you can, and make sure there's some elements of fantasy.

 

Becca 

That's incredible, really that perspective. This and, and what you've said earlier, you, you mentioned your nightmare to deal with emotionally. Whereas in my notes, I've written emotionally very intelligent, have you? Would you say that you're unusual in this? Do you have many divorced or separated dads in your sphere?

 

Daniel 

No, no, not a heat? No, I guess I guess, you know, my, the majority of my social milieu are still together, kind of people in their early 40s, with, you know, kids kind of, you know, just hitting teenage years, that kind of thing is kind of where the people I'm familiar with. So I mean, I know, a couple

 

Becca 

is quite emotionally intelligent, the people that you surround yourself, Wait, would you call yourself?

 

Daniel 

No, I don't, I don't think so. I think I think I'm, I'm, I'm quite open. But I'm also aware of the fact that I can operate a bit like a roller coaster with high highs and low lows. So um, you know, I'm working at the moment to try and, you know, kind of make that a bit more stable and manageable and, you know, have kind of a longer term, better outcome for myself in the in the way I conduct myself. And so I don't know, maybe it's just being open to it and being comfortable talking about it, and not being, you know, not being afraid of it and finding, you know, that kind of aspect of human beings. Interesting. And so I'm, you know, I'm quite comfortable talking about it. You mentioned, so I asked you about it, but I won't I won't claim to be intelligent. Well, I

 

Becca 

was, I was nailing you that. So I'll, I'll give you that bed. And so you mentioned also that there were things that she's done well, so your ex wife, the mother of your children, through through this separation, what are some of the things that she's done? Well, that might have brought out the best in you, or the best in this situation that others might be able to learn from,

 

Daniel 

I think, definitely showing care for my emotional well being was a big deal.

 

Becca 

Did she do that, tell me more about that.

 

Daniel 

Ah, I don't know, if I was overreacting to things she she stay calm. You know, if I've had hard times, she's, you know, been available to talk to about them. So being a support, she's taken responsibility for kind of, you know, 50% of our shared responsibilities. So, you know, a lot of dealing with the school and communicating with the school and managing, you know, after school care and, and things like that. And, you know, she, she was proactive about getting in touch. Hope she doesn't mind me talking about this, getting in touch with Centrelink, that, you know, from, you know, from the time when we separated. Because her income as she was transitioning career was quite low. You know, she discovered there were these things like a payment for being separated, but living in the same home just kind of made me think I wish we separated two years earlier and still lived in the same home when she was a student, and I could have got a big discount off childcare. You had to hear her effectively becoming a single mother and then having to take on a second dwelling. That, you know, that while I was contributing more of the money towards that, she'd go and put in big effort to seeing what kind of government support there was available to her to mitigate some of those costs. And, you know, when when, yeah, when you're both having to work and, you know, by no stretch of the imagination, you know, my wealthy when you both having to work and childcare, super expensive that, you know, being able to access all those things, and they're complicated, and they're time consuming and the way the government works to deliver them. I don't know that they're necessarily trying to incentivize people getting easy access to those benefits. And so, you know, it's, it's hard work. So, you know, I kind of I saw the value in her contribution to what we were trying to do, to try and, you know, take this situation that I've found very, very difficult and to, you know, make make the whole thing manageable and feasible and

 

Becca 

even harder than getting the money out of the system is getting somebody to appreciate the effort that it takes, I think so many people that go through separation do need to go down these rabbit holes and find out where the support is. And it's not necessarily true, that the other person appreciates those efforts, going both ways, of course, that the ex wife needs to appreciate all of those efforts of the ex husband will go down the rabbit holes to find what supports available and so that we've heard of him.

 

Daniel 

Yeah, I think we were lucky to maintain trust throughout it. You know, that there's, you know, we still have some shared property together. And, you know, there's been a couple of times where I take the lead on dealing with the banks and the budgeting and managing all of that, and, you know, my ex, and doesn't reflect poorly on OBU, we'll just say, that's your error, and I trust you to make that decision. And just you let me know what we're going to do. And, you know, obviously, provide transparency and a rationale for everything I'm suggesting, and, you know, insist that, you know, that the decision be made jointly, but, you know, we've managed to maintain maintain a high degree of trust. Yeah, that's incredible. each other and all these things. And, you know, I think as other things have happened, like, you know, taking on partners and partners, meeting our children, and

 

Becca 

some of them already, you've each introduced somebody new into the family unit.

 

Daniel 

Yeah, yeah. Some have come and gone, and some are still here. But yeah, yeah. And again, you know, having that trust that, you know, that they're not going to bring someone into your kid's life that's, you know, highly disagreeable is helpful, that, you know, you have some some confidence in them doing that. And, and, yeah, I guess maintaining some level of sense of humor is important as well in throughout the whole thing as well. And, you know, it often seems to be me, that's the butt of the jokes that my current partner, every time my ex wife was around, they seem to manage to find a way to have a glass of wine and joke about how they're going to spend my super when I die. So if something happens to me backer, I'll come looking for you. I'm looking for both of them, because that it was probably better than that did mean and then split my super. So there's not that much there to take. So for the moment, I'm pretty safe, I think,

 

Becca 

Well, I'm happy to hear that you're in a good place. Now, you certainly sound like you're in a good place. Now. Let me ask you a going back to that time, where you you said that this wasn't a situation that you wanted for yourself, use the word devastated if, if not in this conversation in our last at least, I'd love to know. I think our listeners would love to know how you did you cope in those early months and years when you were feeling devastated, and probably all of the other emotions around annoyance, etc. How did you cope?

 

Daniel 

I don't know, I, I can't allow it. I probably focused on work. Because I was mindful of having seen people go through highly challenging emotional situations and having their whole life unravel. And I didn't want my whole life to unravel. So I kind of put some focus on work and making sure that I was successful there so that I could maintain the growing set of obligations I was accumulating. I think I probably was just trying to distract myself a lot of the time I'm under no, I kind of, I'm not particularly good at dealing with things when they go wrong. I don't, I don't really have a mechanism for doing that. I've discovered and so for me, it's just been about surviving, you know about getting through. And, you know, I kind of I think I've developed a little mantra that I was telling myself that just because someone doesn't want to be with me, it doesn't mean I need to value me any less. It just means they're looking for something different. It doesn't it doesn't actually reflect anything about me, necessarily, if someone doesn't want to be with me.

 

Becca 

Exactly. I can epiphany How did you get to that? Because I think that's a beautiful truth.

 

Daniel 

I don't know, I think it might have just been a self defense mechanism kicking in, you know, at a particularly low point and thinking about it and yeah, just having to find a way to like rationalize and reason my way out of the situation and the way I was feeling and yeah, that occurred to me. So I you know, I just started kind of telling myself that and, you know, I kind of I don't know, I've done a lot of things were just through sheer repetition that you kind of imprint a new reality on yourself and and go with it and I actually don't know that I actually you'd like you'd a great deal or came to grips with it that well, you know, I kind of distracted myself, we're starting to date again work, you know, an adventurous social life, that kind of thing. And, and then I don't know, it's almost like the pandemic became a bit of a blessing for me that I ended up stuck at home with all this time leaving in the house I'd shared with my ex, and we have nothing else to do. I've redecorated the house, like I like to eat something as simple as putting up a whole heap of pictures. And all of a sudden, that changed the environment that I spent all the time in from a place that I used to live in with someone else to being my place. And my space or canvas. Yeah, yeah. And I actually found that, like, it had a radical impact on the way I felt changing my physical environment. And I didn't do anything dramatic. I didn't paint any walls, I just filled the walls with a bunch of pictures and, you know, put some plants in and built a little veggie patch in the front yard. And yeah, yeah, well, you know, nothing too extravagant. But yeah, it made a big impact psychologically, getting some control over my physical environment.

 

Becca 

I think these are beautiful coping techniques, all of them the distraction, but with something healthy, as opposed to unhealthy, it's not that you are unhealthy, and what you've said with me, let's just dwell on that. But you've certainly found some healthy avenues at least to keep yourself distracted to get through those months and, and early years, how long would you say it takes took you? Or is it still taking you to make peace with the end of your marriage? I assume you have given that you're dating again, and that you've got a great trusting relationship with your ex? How long would you say that?

 

Daniel 

I'd say it took probably two, two years, okay, but might use, I don't know, weirdly, I've got like a Mount Everest analogy popping into my head, it took me two years to get to Basecamp. But I'm still climbing up the mountain to the summit. Like there's still, there's still aspects of it, where you, you lack a lot of autonomy, and you're having to negotiate constantly on, you know, when you're available and things like that, and that's, you know, becomes challenging. And in my current relationship, you know, having an obligation that's not just determined by me, that controls 50% of my time, which is the amount of time I spend with my children. And so yeah, that, you know, there's still aspects that frustrate me, you know, like, where I live, I've got to live within a certain amount of distance of the school where my kids are gonna go, I can't choose to go on leave into state or overseas or something like that, unless I'm prepared to give up access to my children. And so, you know, that there's, you know, it could be another 12 or 20 years before I actually feel like I've got that, that kind of autonomy. I don't know, we'll see at what point my children get completely bored of me and want to do their own thing. So

 

Becca 

that your ex wife also wants an international adventure in the same city that you want the international adventure with the children?

 

Daniel 

Yeah, well, we've had a conversation about that kind of thing. And again, you know, I'll reiterate that thing where it goes back to what's best for the kids in that we've had a conversation where we've said, Look, you know, if an opportunity for my job came up to move overseas, that I, you know, I could take the kids for a year, or six months or something like that, we change the way custody operates, so that they could have that life experience as well.

 

Becca 

It's beautiful. My kids were born and raised overseas. They have it, they're just different humans for it, I really recommend it. I'm not telling you what arrangements to make for your future, I'm saying these opportunities can be really, really lovely when they come along.

 

Daniel 

I'd love that opportunity. And I think it'd be great for my kids to have that opportunity, too. And, you know, I guess, you know, I keep hitting on some of the themes that, you know, maintaining that aspect of trust, and, you know, you know, yes, some level of communication and collaboration and all those kinds of things is, you know, kind of potentially mean some of those opportunities will happen. But like I said, there's still aspects of this process and situation that that I find incredibly frustrating.

 

Becca 

Tell me a bit more about that. Because you had also mentioned it hasn't worked out quite how you'd hoped or intended. And there are some elements that you're finding incredibly frustrating. I can read between the lines. I can kind of put some of that together. But I'd love to hear from your point of view. What hasn't worked out how you would have hoped

 

Becca 

if the end of the marriage

 

Daniel 

I don't know. It's yeah, I don't know. I mean, just philosophically not happy that the marriage ended. But like we both moved on, so far beyond it now that there's no longer any emotional attachment to that relationship or the other person. You know, it's not not like, it's not like I want to go back to it or anything like that. But there's there's no acrimony either. There's the hurts gone, the pains gone, the disappointments gone. And it's just left with a bit of frustration about the logistical aspects of, of dealing with the situation. And, and the, the impact it has on your autonomy of decision making.

 

Becca 

Right? Yeah, I can understand that. That is frustrating. But there's some really good stuff in there. The fact that the grief has been, you've gone through, as you said, up to Basecamp. So you've gotten through the grief part to get to base camp. You know, there's no acrimony, there's no residual feelings or hope for getting back together. That's, that's really great.

 

Daniel 

You know, and we've tried lots of different ways to manage the situation. So in terms of custody, that so we've, when we first split up, we rented a second property, and one of the adults would leave and stay at the other property, and the children would stay in the house. Yeah. And I think we did that maybe for six months, and then leaving out of the bag became too hard.

 

Becca 

Yeah, we both, right,

 

Daniel 

we always knew it wasn't going to be like, that's only a temporary thing. You can't, you can't keep doing that you need your own space and keep sharing a space and, you know, children just accept the situation as normal and seem very relaxed about it. And, you know, even though they're only little, and maybe this is not a great parenting thing to do, but I've asked them if they'd ever like us to get back together. And they're like, No, we, you know, we like this situation. We're happy with this situation where the youngest won't, but the oldest one would, and if he does, what he probably remembers, is telling us off arguing, even when we weren't arguing. But yeah, so we are the adults coming and going, we've done like, three days on four days on, four days off, three days on, done, having three days a week each and having every second Tuesday. I implemented one at one point where we'd have one kid each, each Tuesday.

 

Becca 

alone time, okay. Yeah, trying

 

Daniel 

to get some one on one time, because I felt like I wasn't really getting to know, my youngest child. Because he was so young, when we split up and I was only ever having the experience having both of them. That one didn't work because they both anytime one of them had to come to me. They were thoroughly unimpressed and both one and just fought over who got to go to their mum's house.

 

Becca 

Which would have made you feel quite awful. I imagine it I'm sure it wasn't about. It's about having

 

Daniel 

each other. Yeah, I kind of understood it. I mean, you know, I've, I've, I've tried to do my best to make sure I've got video games and BMX bikes, and we go to the pub for dinner, and I let them get away with absolute murder, possibly more than their mom does. at dad's house. It was I think I also balanced that out by being the one that has the most success with getting them to eat new vegetables. So yeah, it's not. It's not it's not all just letting them have their own way. But so you've done that. And then

 

Becca 

you're currently I mean, then.

 

Daniel 

So we yeah, we've tried to maintain 5050 custody throughout, which I think has been really important. At the moment, we're doing one where you either do two days or five days in a week, so that you get every second weekend off. It is incredibly hard being a solo parent, particularly when you're outnumbered by the number of children. Any single parents who are permanently single parents have my absolute respect, I think, I can't think of a tougher gig than being a single parent.

 

Becca 

And I think work and all of them. Yeah, all of the things come to you don't they? Yeah, it's a lot.

 

Daniel 

Yeah, I think it's incredibly tough. And, you know, getting a taste of it each week, you know, by the end of five days in a row of being a solo parent, you know, it's you worn out and short tempered and and yeah, it's tough. So I've got a lot of empathy for single parents but um, but yeah, we've been through loads of different iterations of of custody setups as well as like I took on a new job and my partner scaled up to 60%. My sorry, my ex partner scaled up to 60% custody to give me an opportunity to bed myself into a new job. So yeah, we you know, we try to maintain flexibility and help each other out when it's our nights because, you know, cost the babysitter's is an economical if you're trying to do it too often. And. And, yeah, people have seen an Excel spreadsheet that I maintain that basically maps out the whole year of what you're doing. So you can try and plan your life and your weekends off in advance and things like that. And people think I'm absolutely mad, but it's kind of like, how else do you manage it unless you've got something that tells

 

Becca 

you if your parents doing this? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. When

 

Daniel 

we've never had that instance, where we've gotten a call from the school saying how you kids, you're crying, no one's picked him up? Like we haven't had that happen in, you know, four or five years of schooling. That, yeah, that yeah, that we've, you know, we're, it's working for the kids, we know who's responsible for what, when, and, you know, there's an even share of it. And, you know, that, you know, I feel anyone that goes through a custody battle, you know, I really feel for them, because that, you know, they seem to be really traumatic things to deal with. And, you know, the only the only kind of arguments we've ever had about custody, a tongue in cheek, and you know, when one of us says that, we'll sue the other for custody, it's threatening to rock up to the court and say, I'm an unfit parent, the other one has to look after that. permanently, because it's such hard work.

 

Becca 

And you can joke about that there's, there's too few families can write it often comes down to I'm not trying to write blanket statements here. But I often hear very little communication when it doesn't work. It's quite awful. And it's handed over, don't talk to them, hand them back, don't talk. So I'm really pleased to hear this is a positive divorce story. It really is.

 

Daniel 

Yeah, why don't, we still managed to find ways to like mitigate the contact when it was emotionally difficult that, you know, we set up the custody arrangements, so that one person had dropped them off at school, and the other one had picked them up. So they'd only be like, once a week, on a weekend, you know, because we also had a custody arrangement, one point where you either got the Friday night or the Saturday night off of every weekend, and that would be the handover point. We've tried all the different iterations, not none of them, none of them are perfect, and you just embrace whatever one happens to be working the best that you can get to work for

 

Becca 

  1. I want to ask you, what is the best and what is the worst piece of advice that you've been given through your separation and divorce?

 

 

 

Daniel 

I can't, I can't get I can't get out of my head. I were given a piece of advice by my father, that he wished you'd invested more in real estate. And that's completely backfired on me.

 

Daniel 

But when we, when we, when we split up, and I knew I was going to have to provide extra financial support, I thought I kind of talked my ex into the idea of taking equity out of a townhouse we owned and buying an apartment for her to live in, it'd be more secure, I'd pay I'd put extra money into it with the intention that at some point, you know, I might make a capital gain on it or, you know, make a profit on it or end up with an investment property, or a share of an investment property, something like that. And, you know, it seemed good in theory, but, you know, we've just sold the apartment at a loss because, you know, interest rates were going up and, and, and we were too heavily geared. And, you know, we just, you know, we wanted, we wanted to get out of it and not keep accruing that loss. But, you know, at the same time, it kind of helped me, I guess, deal with emotionally the idea of, I'm gonna pay double or triple what I'm obligated to legally. But instead of paying someone else's rent, I'm going to be putting it into my own property. And, you know, I think, you know, the pandemic and some of the other things that I couldn't have anticipated have meant that that hasn't worked out the way it intended. But, you know, for quite a while, I was telling people that story saying, you know, how Brian, I'm I'm gonna be the only person ever that's made a profit on their child support, but um, yeah, unfortunately, it's not actually going to work out. It's not going to work out that way.

 

Becca 

In terms of terrible advice, though, that's that was not predictable. What's going to happen with the property market with inflation rates, and I'm not sure that was entirely awful advice. It was just not great timing. And

 

Daniel 

when I possibly didn't ask cuted in the way it was intended, I think maybe if I'd gone and bought another townhouse or something that wasn't an apartment I'd have I would have been better off. I don't know, I don't I don't know that I got a lot of advice either good or bad. I had some family members have very emotional reactions to what what was going on and offer to help pay for a lawyer. And I was like, No, I'm not. I'm not doing that. I don't there is no acrimony. I'm, I don't need that. And, you know, you don't, you don't need to be upset about this. You know, it's not like I didn't contribute to the end of the relationship. It's not like I'm without fault. You know, the other person left, they had reasons to leave. And I wasn't, I wasn't, you know, like, a dream to be with. I am. Hopefully I don't get get myself in trouble with the neuro diversity work people. But when I started dating again, I met someone who was able to finish my sentences. And I said to myself, This person is just like me, this is going to be brilliant. I've always wanted to date me, what could be better than dating me? Two weeks, I was really anxious about the whole situation. And then, after three weeks, I was like, I think this person's got Asperger's or something. Do I have Asperger's? And then they dumped me via text message. And I was like, Thank God that's over. And I rang up my accent. And I said to her, Hey, I don't know how you did nine years of this, I just dated me for three weeks, and it was a complete nightmare. I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you some extra child support for your pain and suffering. And very predictably said, I'll take it, and then you can actually with you as well. I have actually been giving been giving her an extra $200 a month in pain and suffering after dating me for a couple of weeks, so she can thank that person that I happen to meet.

 

Becca 

That's awesome. All right, I'm gonna wrap up here. I'm gonna ask you one final question. If you had some advice to pass on to somebody to do divorce, right? What would your advice to them be?

 

Daniel 

I guess, trying to remember that you cared for each other. And, you know, focus on if you've got children, focus on the children and what's best for them. Because it, it helps separate you from how you feeling about the other person. And, and regardless of whether you have kids or not, try to remember that you cared about this person and try to show care for each other, in the ways that you're best able to do that. And, yeah, don't I mean, don't try and hurt each other, I think it's probably easy for me to say that, given that in my situation, you know, nine style non cheated, you know, there wasn't some massive betrayal and hurt. And, you know, I think those situations are a lot harder and a lot more complex. And, you know, I think I'm quite fortunate in the situation I encountered. And so, you know, people might be sitting there listening to me, saying, you know, that's easy for you to say in that situation.

 

Becca 

Grief to go through, and as you say, you were devastated to absolutely agree, it complicates things when there's a deep, dark, fresh wound to deal with, but I love that advice.

 

Daniel 

Show care for each other, don't, you know, try not to be one of the 85% that ended up with much worse economic outcomes. As a result of, you know, it's, you know, going through that is hard enough, emotionally, and, you know, oftentimes logistically, and, you know, try to do your best to work together to, you know, at least make sure that you're not, you're not setting yourselves back significantly as a result of it. And, you know, give yourself the opportunity to have a, you know, a good quality of life again, as soon as possible. Because, you know, being able to have a holiday or, you know, go out on a date or things like that things that are things that feel good, and help help improve your well being and you know, pay for the gym, get yourself a new bicycle, whatever it is, but you know, being able to invest resources into things that are going to be good for you is much more important than investing them in, you know, undermining the other person's well being or getting revenge or, you know, kind of giving into the the anger and the hurt that you no doubt feel, whether you're the person that left or was left, because regardless of what side of that equation you're on, you're going to feel like you've been let down. And, you know, I certainly know my ex felt let down, by the way I was throughout the relationship, and then certainly, a lot of my behavior when it did end, and you know, I don't pretend that I'm without fault. But, you know, if you, you kind of try to keep that in mind that you're both going to have to take turns at times being the one that stays calm and shows care and talks the other person off the precipice and just keeps trying to focus on you know, getting through this and getting to a good outcome is, you know, hopefully a good way to approach it.

 

Becca 

Well, not sure it is easily said for a lot of people that it's really hard to get to that point where you can have that reflected capacity and align that that's what you need to be able to do. So, Daniel, thank you so much for your time and for sharing your story. I think having a male perspective has been really, really interesting. I appreciate your time.

 

 

Daniel 

Yeah, hopefully, people enjoy the story and get something out of it. And, yeah, I appreciate the opportunity to come and talk to you and the interest in, in my story, it's, it's, you know, it's not, it's not any different to anyone else's. And, you know, I kind of, I don't, I don't think my experience of the human condition is that different to other people. So, you know, hopefully it's reassuring to hear some of what I've said to people.

 

Becca 

Yeah. Thanks for listening. I hope you took something of value out of this episode. I'm your host, Becca Maxwell. And you can find me on the web at dodivorceright.com or on Instagram @dodivorceright. I look forward to connecting with you there.

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